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Opting Out of Vaccines Should Opt You Out of American Society

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The ongoing measles outbreaks across the United States and Europe prove definitively that our personal choices affect everybody around us. Although you have a right to your own body, your choice to willfully be sick ends where another’s right to be healthy begins. For that reason, people who “opt out” of vaccines should be opted out of American society.

This is America, the Land of the Free. That freedom, however, doesn’t mean “I can do whatever I want, whenever I want.” When we choose to live in a society, there are certain obligations—both moral and legal—to which we are bound. You cannot inflict harm or infringe on the rights and liberties of those around you.

Those obligations extend even to your constitutional rights. Although we have a First Amendment, you are not allowed to play music as loudly as you want in your apartment. Your neighbors have a legal right to peace and quiet. Even though we have a Second Amendment, you are not allowed to shoot a gun for sport in the middle of a city or town. Stray bullets are not only scary, they’re hazardous, and often inadvertently kill people.

Finally, your moral and legal obligations to the safety of others can even curtail combinations of your rights. Even though consuming alcohol and driving are both legal activities, they are not legal when performed together. Nearly 11,000 people die every year because people choose to exercise their “rights” inappropriately.

The exact same reasoning applies to vaccination. There is no moral difference between a drunk driver and a willfully unvaccinated person. Both are selfishly, recklessly and knowingly putting the lives of everyone they encounter at risk. Their behavior endangers the health, safety and livelihood of the innocent bystanders who happen to have the misfortune of being in their path.

The reasons why are simple and straightforward. Vaccines aren’t perfect (e.g., they can wear off over time) and not everyone can be vaccinated. There is one and only one legitimate reason to skip a vaccine: being immunocompromised. Some individuals, because of genetic deficiencies or diseases like cancer, cannot receive vaccines. Other people are too young. Vaccines such as MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) cannot be administered before 12 months of age. These vulnerable people rely on the responsible actions of everyone else in society to protect them, a concept known as “herd immunity.”

For their sake, we have a moral—and there should also be a legal—obligation to protect them. Everyone who can be vaccinated must be vaccinated in order to prevent the spread of disease. This is a protection we demand even for our animals: kennels will turn your pet away if they aren’t properly vaccinated and on an accepted flea treatment. There are rules we all have to play by and responsibilities we have to live up to if we want to live in a society together.

If this isn’t enough to convince a person to become fully vaccinated, then perhaps there is a solution that maintains everybody’s freedom: Anti-vaxxers can opt out of American society. No public or private school, workplace or other institution should allow a non-exempt, unvaccinated person through their doors. A basic concern for the health and safety of others is the price it costs to participate.

Is that too harsh? We don’t think so. If a person wants to blast their music loudly, shoot guns aimlessly, and drink and drive, they should be allowed to do exactly as they please: so long as it’s on their own property, sufficiently isolated from everyone else. Similarly, if you don’t want to be vaccinated, perhaps that should be allowed too, so long as you agree to permanently live out in the middle of nowhere.

It is inexcusable that society has reached this point. Many of the deadliest diseases known to mankind are due to bacteria and viruses, and dozens of them are now entirely preventable thanks to the sciences of microbiology and immunology.

People falsely believe that diseases like measles have “gone away,” but they have not. They’re always there, waiting to strike as soon as our collective guard goes down. Not so long ago, smallpox ran the risk of obliterating entire cities, while polio paralyzed large fractions of a generation. We have forgotten this morbid history because public health has been a victim of its own success.

But misinformation abounds. The internet, both a blessing and a curse, has allowed devilish lies, propaganda and a discredited fraud masquerading as science to infect the minds of millions of people. Unfortunately, there’s no vaccine that can inoculate someone against a counterfactual, unscientific mindset.

There are, however, vaccines that can prevent dozens of harmful diseases. Those who refuse, and recklessly endanger others, should be put in quarantine.

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anna_librariana
334 days ago
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Boston, MA
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162 days ago
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mxm23
334 days ago
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And cigarette and cigar smoking. And vaping. Why do I have to breathe someone else’s habit inside of city limits? Or anywhere civilized, really?
West Coast
162 days ago
https://keramatzade.com/Earn-wealth-with-amazing-business-ideals https://keramatzade.com/Law-of-Attraction-of-Wealth https://keramatzade.com/Ways-to-make-money https://modirebimeh.ir/online-calculation-of-iranian-life-insurance/ https://modirebimeh.ir/engineers-professional-liability-insurance/ https://modirebimeh.ir/third-party-insurance-calculation/ https://modirebimeh.ir/iran-liability-insurance-have-you-not-yet-insured-your-business-with-iran-liability-insurance/ https://modirebimeh.ir/iran-life-insurance-ganji-for-the-future-of-children-and-families/ https://modirebimeh.ir/iran-car-body-insurance-the-best-and-most-prestigious-in-the-iranian-insurance-industry/ https://modirebimeh.ir/the-most-reliable-and-unrivaled-third-party-car-insurance-in-iran/ https://keramatzade.com/14-ways-to-increase-revenue https://keramatzade.com/8-ways-to-increase-revenue https://keramatzade.com/25-jobs-with-which-you-can-earn-up-to-a-million-dollars https://keramatzade.com/success-secret-1 https://keramatzade.com/Make-Money-Online-Effective-step-by-step-money-making-techniques https://keramatzade.com/Make-money-at-home https://keramatzade.com/Ways-to-make-money-without-capital https://keramatzade.com/Creative-Money-Making-Ideas https://keramatzade.com/The-law-of-attracting-money https://keramatzade.com/Ways-to-Make-Money-at-Home https://keramatzade.com/Immediate-absorption-of-wealth-in-10-minutes-and-attractive-ways-to-get-rich https://keramatzade.com/The-secret-of-attracting-money-in-Iran-to-achieve-creative-money-maker-ideas https://keramatzade.com/Ways-to-get-rich-in-Iran-with-the-most-wonderful-business-ideas https://keramatzade.com/Astonishing-economic-intelligence-test-to-increase-financial-intelligence
ScottInPDX
335 days ago
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A thousand times this. I just think it's a shame that children are the ones who end up paying the price for their parents' willful ignorance. In this case, it's the parent giving the kid a bunch of booze, then putting them behind the wheel. The parents don't usually suffer the direct consequences of their actions, which is what's needed for this nonsense to stop. We need to shun the adults who perpetuate this dangerous behavior.
Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth
162 days ago
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"There's way worse videos"

jwz
5 Comments and 19 Shares
Today's students on Rodney King:

I mentioned Rodney King in an Intro to American Government class. I got the blank "Is that a thing we are supposed to know?" look that I have come to recognize when students hear about something that happened more than six months ago. "Rodney King?" More blinking. "Can someone tell why the name Rodney King is important?"

One student, god bless her, raised her hand. I paraphrase: "He was killed by the police and it caused the LA Riots." I noted that, no, he did not die, but the second part of the statement was indirectly true. God bless technology in the classroom -- I pulled up the grainy VHS-camcorder version of the video, as well as a transcript of the audio analysis presented at trial. We watched, and then talked a bit about the rioting following the acquittal of the LAPD officers at trial. They kept doing the blinking thing. I struggled to figure out what part of this relatively straightforward explanation had managed to confuse them.

"Are there questions? You guys look confused."

Hand. "So he was OK?"

"He was beaten up pretty badly, but, ultimately he was. He died a few years ago from unrelated causes (note: in 2012)."

Hand. "It's kind of weird that everybody rioted over that. I mean, there's way worse videos." General murmurs of agreement. [...]

This is a generation of kids so numb to seeing videos of police beating, tasering, shooting, and otherwise applying the power of the state to unarmed and almost inevitably black or Hispanic men that they legitimately could not understand why a video of cops beating up a black guy (who didn't even die for pete's sake!) was shocking enough to cause a widespread breakdown of public order. [...]

These kids have grown up in a world where this is background noise. It is part of the static of life in the United States. Whether these incidents outrage them or are met with the usual excuses (Comply faster, dress differently, be less Scary) the fact is that they happen so regularly that retaining even one of them in long term memory is unlikely. To think about Rodney King is to imagine a reality in which it was actually kind of shocking to see a video of four cops kicking and night-sticking an unarmed black man over the head repeatedly. Now videos of police violence are about as surprising and rare as weather reports, and forgotten almost as quickly once passed.

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anna_librariana
1017 days ago
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Boston, MA
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chrishiestand
1016 days ago
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My favorite thing about teenagers is the way they hold up a mirror and make you look at yourself
San Diego, CA, USA
smadin
1016 days ago
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…hooboy.
Boston
rclatterbuck
1016 days ago
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The unconscionable was always commonplace, it is just more visible now. As a society we are learning anew that just because we are aware of a problem, doesn't mean it is going to be fixed.
sirshannon
1017 days ago
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hell in a hand basket

I’m the union leader Donald Trump attacked. I’m tired of being lied to about our jobs. - The Washington Post

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I’m a union leader in Indianapolis. I represent the Carrier workers whose jobs Donald Trump has pledged to save. And I’m tired of being lied to.

In February, corporate officials came to our plant and announced that they were closing the facility. They would move 1,300 jobs to a plant in Mexico. (Three hundred and fifty positions would remain in Indianapolis, mostly filled by research and development staff.)

Over the next several months, my team and I worked tirelessly to keep Carrier in our city. We came up with $23 million in savings, but the Carrier brass said that wasn’t enough. They could save $65 million by moving to Mexico. We couldn’t match that unless we were willing to cut wages to $5/hour and cut all benefits.

So we started to negotiate a severance package instead — one week of pay for every year of service, a $2,500 lump sum for every employee and free health care for six months.

Then, a couple of weeks ago, Trump got involved. He sat down with Carrier leaders. Afterward, he announced that 1,100 jobs would be saved. When I first heard the news, I was optimistic. But I began to get nervous when we couldn’t get any details on the deal. I urged caution, but our members got their hopes up. They thought their jobs had been saved.

When I met with Carrier officials last Thursday, I realized that that wouldn’t be the case. Though Trump said he’d saved 1,100 jobs, he hadn’t. Carrier told us that 550 people would get laid off.

Trump didn’t tell people that, though. When he spoke at our plant, he acted like no one was going to lose their job. People went crazy for him. They thought, because of Trump, I’m going to be able to provide for my family. 

All the while, I’m sitting there, thinking that’s not what the damn numbers say. Trump let people believe that they were going to have a livelihood in that facility. He let people breathe easy. When I told our members the next day, they were devastated.

I was angry, too. So I told a Washington Post reporter the truth — that Trump’s 1,100 number was wrong. When Trump read my comments, he got angry. Last night, he tweeted:

Now our office is getting phone calls and emails from people who are mad that I called Trump on his dishonesty. One man left five messages (though when I called him back and told him who I was, he hung up the phone). Some people have suggested that Trump didn’t mean to lie, he just got the numbers wrong. But I know that’s not true. On the campaign trail, Trump made perfectly clear how excellent a negotiator he is. I have negotiated hundreds of contracts. I know that if I’m going to have a fighting chance, I better damn well know the numbers.

To be honest, the attention isn’t a big deal. I’ve been doing this job for 30 years. In that time, people have threatened to shoot me, to burn my house down. I’m not a macho man, but I’m just used to it.

What I can’t abide, however, is a president who misleads workers, who gives them false hope. We’re not asking for anything besides opportunity, for jobs that let people provide for their families. These plants are profitable, and the workers produced a good-quality product. Because of corporate greed, though, company leaders are racing to the bottom, to find places where they can pay the least. It’s a system that exploits everyone.

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anna_librariana
1169 days ago
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1170 days ago
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JimB
1169 days ago
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Trump's story always sounded too good to be true.
codesujal
1170 days ago
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When Trump aims his lying tweets at you... #fb
West Hartford, CT

Star Trek Mad Science

jwz
5 Comments and 24 Shares
prokopetz: Random Headcanon:

That Federation vessels in Star Trek seem to experience bizarre malfunctions with such overwhelming frequency isn't just an artefact of the television serial format. Rather, it's because the Federation as a culture are a bunch of deranged hyper-neophiles, tooling around in ships packed full of beyond-cutting-edge tech they don't really understand. Endlessly frustrating if you have to fight them, because they can pull an effectively unlimited number of bullshit space-magic countermeasures out of their arses - but they're as likely as not to give themselves a lethal five-dimensional wedgie in the process. All those rampant holograms and warp core malfunctions and accidentally-traveling-back-in-time incidents? That doesn't actually happen to anyone else; it's literally just Federation vessels that go off the rails like that. And they do so on a fairly regular basis.

Getting a link to a whole thread on Tumblr seems to be an impossibility, but these are some amusing replies:

So to everyone else in the galaxy, all humans are basically Doc Brown.

Aliens who have seen the Back to the Future movies literally don't realise that Doc Brown is meant to be funny. They're just like "yes, that is exactly what all human scientists are like in my experience".

...
Vulcan Science Academy: Why do you need another warp core

Humans: We're going to plug two of them together and see if we go twice as fast

VSA: Last time we gave you a warp core you threw it into a sun to see if the sun would go twice as fast

Humans: Hahaha yeah

Humans: It did tho

VSA: IT EXPLODED

Humans: It exploded twice as fast

...
Klingons: Okay we don't get it

Vulcan Science Academy: Get what

Klingons: You Vulcans are a bunch of stuffy prisses but you're also tougher, stronger, and smarter than Humans in every single way

Klingons: Why do you let them run your Federation

Vulcan Science Academy: Look

Vulcan Science Academy: This is a species where if you give them two warp cores they don't do experiments on one and save the other for if the first one blows up

Vulcan Science Academy: This is a species where if you give them two warp cores, they will ask for a third one, immediately plug all three into each other, punch a hole into an alternate universe where humans subscribe to an even more destructive ideological system, fight everyone in it because they're offended by that, steal their warp cores, plug those together, punch their way back here, then try to turn a nearby sun into a torus because that was what their initial scientific experiment was for and they didn't want to waste a trip.

Vulcan Science Academy: They did that last week. We have the write-up right here. it's getting published in about six hundred scientific journals across two hundred different disciplines because of how many established theories their ridiculous little expedition has just called into question. Also, they did turn that sun into a torus, and no one actually knows how.

Vulcan Science Academy: This is why we let them do whatever the hell they want.

Klingons: .... Can we be a part of your Federation

...
Let's talk about the USS Fucking Pegasus, testbed for the first Starfleet cloaking device. Here we have a handful of humans working in secret to develop a cloaking device in violation of a treaty with the Romulans. They're playing catchup trying to develop a technology other species have had for a century. And what do they do? Do they decide to duplicate a Romulan cloaking device precisely, just see if they can match what other species have? Nope. They decide, hey, while we're at it, while we're building our very first one of these things, just to find out if this is possible, let's see if we can make this thing phase us out of normal space so we can fly through planets while we're invisible.

"But why" said the one Vulcan in the room.

"Because that would fucking rule" said the Humans, high-fiving each other and slamming cans of 24th-century Red Bull.

...
Humans get mildly offended by the way they are presented in non-human media.

Like: "Guys, we totally wouldn't do that!" But this always fails to get much traction, because the authors can always say: "You totally did."

"That was ONE TIME."

There's that movie where humans invented vaccines by just testing them on people. Or the one about those two humans who invented powered flight by crashing a bunch of prototypes. Or the one about electricity.

And human historians go, "Oh, uh, this is historically accurate, but also kind of boring."

...
But when the Vulcans made first contact with Earth - "what the hell is that insane thing these aliens here have built, let's go look at it" - humans didn't look at them as an enemy or a resource or even an asset. No, the very first time humans met Vulcans, they tried to do the Vulcan hand thingy and they couldn't do it so they just offered a handshake, and then said "let's get drunk and party." THIS IS ACTUAL LITERAL CANON, REMEMBER.

Further in this vein:

I will never be over the fact that during first contact a human offered their hand to a vulcan and the vulcan was just like "wow humans are fucking wild" and took it

Note: Vulcan hand / finger touching is a sex thing.

...
My headcanon for startrek is that humans look, to vulcans, like a dog frathouse. Like signing on to a human ship is exactly that thrillingly loud and frustrating and fast and stupid and fun. The humans are going to dash off to a new sector to see if there are friends there and then they will jump up and down with delight and stuff their faces up against their new friends' genital array. The humans are going to bark for ten minutes at a rock. The humans want to chase things they can't possibly catch just because they like running around. The humans are madly passionate about their arbitrary group identities. The humans can be divided into new arbitrary group identities which they will then be passionate about. The humans want to stick their heads out of the window of their starship and go 'wheee!'. If you step on a human's paw they will act like you just killed them for about thirty seconds and then want more headpats. The humans can be immediately distracted from crucial duties by the appearance of a small animal. If you howl all the humans in earshot will howl louder just to show off. A human just humped your leg. 'Don't make it weird bro' the human says. Later the human will dig a weird bug out of the ground and eat it.

Previously, previously, previously.

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anna_librariana
1185 days ago
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lololol
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1186 days ago
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JayM
1182 days ago
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Awesome!
Atlanta, GA
skittone
1184 days ago
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I absolutely love this. It makes me proud to be human. We'll get to the Star Trek future someday, despite this year's little blip of an extinction bust. We're gonna be okay, folks.
hansolosays
1185 days ago
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ha soo good.
Norfolk, Virginia
satadru
1186 days ago
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Comedy Gold-Pressed Latinum.
New York, NY

Early Morning Thoughts on the Day After

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Because, like I suspect a great many people, I couldn’t get to sleep tonight.

1. Well,I certainly missed that turn of events, didn’t I? To be fair to myself, pretty much everyone missed it — apparently even Trump’s pollsters thought he was going down in defeat last night — but I’m not responsible for other people, I’m responsible for me, and, well: Missed that one totally. I never thought Trump would win the election. I was wrong. He won it. My being wrong is on me.

Would he have won it with a different opponent? Would he have won it if the Supreme Court hadn’t gutted the Voters Right Act? Would he have won it if a significant number of people hadn’t voted for third party candidates? Or if James Comey hasn’t done his little email stunt in the last couple of weeks? These are interesting questions that don’t change the fact that in this reality, Donald Trump is the president-elect. The woulda, shoulda, coulda of things is irrelevant to that.

2. With that said, it is of note that the polling for this election cycle was essentially disastrously wrong, and — again to be fair — it was pretty much only Nate Silver of FiveThirtyEight who warned people that if it was wrong, that the predictions for the race would fail in basically the manner that they did. Silver and his site predicted the outcome incorrectly just like everyone else, but he gets credit for saying “if I’m wrong, this is how that’s going to work” and as far as I can see pretty much nailing that. So, yay, Nate Silver? I would have rather it gone the other way and we all had a post-election laugh at his over-cautiousness. But it didn’t, and once again Silver is the smartest dude in the room, for what it’s worth.

Be that as it may, there is clearly something systematically wrong with how polling is being done. If poll after poll had Clinton leading in states she went on to lose, and often leading by more than a margin of error, then something’s going on. I don’t mean in a conspiratorial, “the polls are being manipulated, man!” sort of way. Again, it’s something systematic in how the polls are conducted and who they are reaching (and probably also something to do with this particular election cycle in itself). How does that get fixed? I’m sure someone will tell us. Maybe Nate Silver.

Much of my confidence about this year’s election was rooted in the polling, which had been reasonably accurate for the last few election cycles (both presidential and congressional), and like I said, while I own my own mis-estimation and being wrong, it’s also a fact that I was wrong along with a whole lot of people, including people for whom polling is their actual job. It’s a discomfiting place to be.

3.It will be no surprise to anyone I’m unhappy with the result of this election. Donald Trump was manifestly the worst presidential candidate in living memory, an ignorant, sex-assaulting vindictive bigot, enamored of strongmen and contemptuous of the law, consorting with white nationalists and hucksters — and now he’s president-elect, President-Elect, which is appalling and very sad for the nation. I don’t see much good coming out of this, either in the immediate or long-term, not in the least because if he does any of the things he promises to do, his impact will be ruinous to the nation. Add to the fact that he’s the GOP candidate, and the GOP now will have the White House, Congress and will appoint the next Supreme Court justice, and, well. There aren’t any grownups in the GOP anymore, and we’re going to find out what that means for all of us.

Here are some of the things it could mean: A conservative Supreme Court for decades, backtracking on climate change, the repeal of Roe v. Wade, Wade, curtailment of free speech, loss of medical insurance to millions, tax policy that advantages the wealthy and adds trillions to the national debt, punitive racial policies, the return of torture as a part of the military toolbox, and a president who uses the apparatus of the US to go after his personal enemies. And these are only the things Trump has said he’s ready to do — we don’t know what else he will do when he’s literally the most powerful man on the planet, with a compliant complaint legislature and judiciary.

The GOP conceit is that somehow they will be able to control Trump, which is a theory that’s worked so well up to now. More realistically, I think the best that can be hoped for is that Trump simply becomes apathetic and bored and leaves actual governance to others, i.e., the Dubya maneuver. This didn’t work particularly well then, but it might be marginally better than the alternative. But no matter what, I don’t have much optimism for the next four years.

4. I’m a well-off straight white man, which means of all the segments of the population, the Trump years will likely punish me the least — I may have to adjust my investments so I don’t lose tons of money when the stock market tumbles (or just be willing to ride it out, just like in 2008), but otherwise, in the short-term at least, I’m likely to be fine. I can’t say the same for my friends and loved ones who are women or minorities or LGTBQ or who struggle financially to make ends meet, or some combination of all of those. I wish I could say to them that it’ll be fine and that they’ll be able to ride out the next four (or, God forbid, eight) years, but I can’t. Trump, himself racist and sexist, brought a bunch of racists and sexists and homophobes to the dance, and now he’s obliged to dance with them. Things could get pretty ugly for everyone who isn’t a well-off straight white man. Things are likely to get ugly.

A lot of my friends are scared of Trump’s America, in other words, and they should be. As Maya Angelou once said, when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. Donald Trump has shown us over and over again who he is; the worst of his supporters — the ones who will now feel like they have free rein reign to indulge their various bigotries — have shown us who they are, too. And while not every Trump voter is among the worst of people, they share the responsibility of having made anyone who isn’t straight, and white, and male, and well-off, less secure, less safe, and more frightened. That’s what they bought for us when they pulled the lever for Trump.

5. And we have to face up to fact that it was white people who brought Trump to us — Trump got the majority of white men and white women who voted. We can parse out why that was (and we can talk about how the minority vote was suppressed), but at the end of the day, the fact remains: Trump will be in power because white people wanted him there.

If Trump’s administration indulges in the racism, sexism and religious and other bigotries that Trump and his people have already promised to engage in, we can assume it’s because his voters are just fine with that racism, sexism and religious and other bigotries — even if they claim to have voted for him for other reasons entirely. After all, Trump didn’t hide these things about himself, or try to sneak these plans in by a side door. They were in full view this entire time. If you vote for a bigot who has bigoted plans, you need to be aware of what that says about you, and your complicity in those plans.

I voted against Trump — voted against him twice, in fact, since I also voted against him in the primary — and I voted against him in no small part because I found his bigotry shameful, and still do. I am proud that he did not get my vote; I’m as proud of that vote as any I’ve offered up. And as an American, I have no plans to take his bigotry lying down. I hope you won’t, either.

6. That said, it might be a little much to ask people to stand and fight today. It was a long night, and a depressing night, for a lot of us. Take a day. Or two. Or a week. Or however much the time you need for yourself to get your head around this thing.

But at the end of that time, I hope you come back to us. Looking at the numbers as they stand right now, Trump won by just about 300,000 votes  Clinton got at least 100,000 more votes than Trump out of about 120 million individual votes cast. There’s a lot of us who will stand with you, when you’re ready to stand again with us. There’s work to be done over the next four years and beyond. We need to get to it.


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anna_librariana
1199 days ago
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Boston, MA
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brennen
1199 days ago
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"As Maya Angelou once said, when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."
Boulder, CO

I'm With Her

6 Comments and 20 Shares
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anna_librariana
1200 days ago
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MaryEllenCG
1201 days ago
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I unabashedly love this. I love it. Thank you, Randall.
Greater Bostonia
satadru
1201 days ago
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Hell^Yeah.
New York, NY
chriscrouch
1201 days ago
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Yay
FNUPP
1201 days ago
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Do not feed the trolls
Cthulhux
1201 days ago
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I didn't know Randall is pro-War. Saddening, actually.
Fledermausland
dukeofwulf
1201 days ago
No, it's saddening that both parties put pro-war candidates on the ballot. I'm voting Johnson, but if you insist in propping up the two-party duopoly, then Clinton is the least bad choice.
ZeroEffect
1201 days ago
Politics aside, I'm surprised to see him do politics. These are extraordinary times.
stevetursi
1201 days ago
It was cool when she said, "I would bomb the shit out of 'em. I would just bomb those suckers. That's right. I'd blow up the pipes. ... I'd blow up every single inch. There would be nothing left."
bluegecko
1201 days ago
You surely don't actually believe that Hillary is pro-war and Trump is pro-peace, right? So are you disappointed that he's not supporting Stein or Johnson, or what? (And stevetursi: I have given up on people this election figuring out sarcasm, so for others in this thread, he's quoting Trump.)
dukeofwulf
1201 days ago
@wreichard Yes. This is an artist truly putting his money where his mouth is. Even though I disagree with him (and am not a fan of interrupting comedy with a serious political PSA) I still respect his courage in speaking out in a truly extraordinary political cycle.
Cthulhux
1201 days ago
As a German, I couldn't care less which of the two fascist idiots will start the next war. I'm stunned about the weird American politics, suggesting that one of those two fascists "must" be the next President. That's all. But yes, if I had the right to vote in the U.S., I'd surely vote for Stein.
stevetursi
1201 days ago
That's admirable, and since I'm not a swing state voter I can do something like that. I'm not a fan of Clinton, but my priority right now is to send Trump back to the shit-infested hellhole he came from, and if that means making her president for the next four years, so be it.
NordicNinja
1201 days ago
It's not about being pro-War, it's about being anti-Trump. An actual, literal fascist augmented by dangerous libertarian rhetoric.
Cthulhux
1201 days ago
Being "anti-Trump" is a bad excuse to vote for the war.
NordicNinja
1201 days ago
No, it isn't. It's not an excuse, it's a logical choice. Trump is demonstrably unstable and his election will rally all those who listen to his dog-whistles as being acceptable. There is literally no reason to vote for Trump unless you are a misinformed, (un)willingly bigoted, culturally- and economically-protected white person. And the latter goes for Johnson, as your votes will do nothing but pat your own back at the expense of those who would be killed under a Trump regime.
Cthulhux
1201 days ago
At least Trump was not an alleged (?!) part of a certain child sex ring. -- What makes you think President Trump would be responsible for deaths and President Clinton would not?
bluegecko
1201 days ago
You are German. If you do not understand the difference between Trump, who is stoking xenophobia and racism as a scapegoat for a working class that feels disenfranchised and is moved to violence, and Hillary, all I can tell you is your knowledge of your own post-WWI history is sadly lacking. (And Trump *is* actually accused of raping a 13-year-old, so you appear to have your child sex stories backwards.)
stevetursi
1201 days ago
Point of correction: Trump is not libertarian, and neither is his rhetoric. He's more closely resembles an authoritarian, which is the opposite of libertarian.
NordicNinja
1201 days ago
Trump is literally going to pretrial in December for child rape. There is nothing substantial to the Clinton version. Trump is loudly and enthusiastically fanning the violent flames of racism. Disenfranchised Americans will die.
stevetursi
1201 days ago
I think at this point it's clear that our German friend is demonstrably ill-informed and would be advised to have him do his homework before continuing to engage.
NordicNinja
1201 days ago
@stevetursi Trump's libertarian enough to get Peter Thiel's endorsement. And I was just pondering if he was actually a Troll For Hire.
Cthulhux
1201 days ago
Clinton already showed her will to lie in order to justify a war when she was a Minister. Trump never was a Minister. Where and when exactly did Trump suggest to send military anywhere to solve a problem?
Cthulhux
1201 days ago
I get it, you're Clinton fans. Because she's a woman or something. Child rape, lies and lust for military intervention are only bad when you're Trump. Yes, I fail to see the logic here - and that's not because I'm German.
stevetursi
1201 days ago
Nordic: Having Thiel's backing does not a libertarian make. Cthu: Again, suggest you do your homework. Answers to all your questions are easy to find.
NordicNinja
1201 days ago
Steve: My point is that he has overlap. :)
stevetursi
1201 days ago
I wouldn't dispute that. It's called nuance. Everybody has a little nuance. (:
joffline
1201 days ago
And here goes my trust in the newsblur comment sections.
kyounger
1201 days ago
Just came here to say this is all crap. Thanks, Randall, for ruining one of the few last bastions of apolitics.
CarlEdman
1201 days ago
This is saddening. I too consider Him to be so contemptible that even Her is the lesser evil. But this is not a place for electioneering.
MaryEllenCG
1201 days ago
Yes, how very dare Randall express his opinion in his comic, that he draws, and you read for free. What a monster he is. Allow me to clutch my pearls in shock.
sfrazer
1201 days ago
"suggesting that one of those two fascists "must" be the next President. That's all. But yes, if I had the right to vote in the U.S., I'd surely vote for Stein." You'd do well to study the electoral college a bit. The US system pretty much enforces a two-party race for President because any prospective candidate _must_ get more than half the electoral college votes. There are 538 of them, so the winner must get 270. Third parties, when they get enough support to be meaningful, siphon off votes from the party they most closely resemble. Not everyone who votes for Clinton this year will be a "fan" but we recognize the mathematics of the electoral process. One of those two people WILL be president next January. Jill Stein will not. Given that choice, I'm With Her, just like Randall
alt_text_bot
1201 days ago
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We can do this.
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